Interfaith Dialogues

This past weekend a group of students from Biola University (a private evangelical Christian university) took a trip from southern California to Utah to brave the cold and learn more about Mormons. They toured Temple Square, and they even got to meet with a leader in the Church (a member of the Quorum of the Seventy) and ask him questions. We were so jealous!

While they were here, they participated in several dialogues with members of the LDS church. The goal of the dialogues is to understand the others' doctrines and personal beliefs. Last year Nathan and I participated in other dialogues with evangelical university students from Biola University (California), North Central University (Minnesota!), Wheaton College (Illinois), and others. It's nice to be in a comfortable, relaxed setting where you can just ask about whatever's on your mind.


On Friday night Nathan, Avery, and I went to a local evangelical church to hear a short sermon, listen to some popular Christian songs played by a really good band, and then have some really fun conversations with some evangelicals. We had so much fun! It was good to be with a group of people who were very honest and open, and yet were not critical of our beliefs.

There was also a really yummy potluck beforehand with some delicious chili (you can kinda see it in the background below). My favorite was the white bean and chicken chili. Yummy! My mouth is watering just thinking about it. They even gave us leftovers to take home! Everyone was nice enough to be willing to hold Avery. She basically got passed around from person to person the whole time! They were very accommodating to say the least! Avery seemed to love it! :) She's been drooling buckets lately. She drooled all over Kate (holding her below), but Kate was so patient and didn't seem to mind too much. Thank goodness for bibs!


Below is the Communion, which is an evangelical practice we'd never seen before. During the singing, any believer could take it as a recommitment to follow Christ. Their idea of Communion is very similar to our sacrament. The pic is a little blurry, but it was unleavened bread and grape juice.


After the singing, we broke up into groups and took turns asking each other questions. We sat with two girls and talked about several different topics that we wanted to understand better, like their concept of the Trinity, or our understanding of prophets. We also shared personal experiences of at what point(s) in our lives we developed our own convictions and what difference that has made in our lives.


The two girls that we dialogued with, Vanessa and Sarah were sooo nice! It was probably the best experience I've had dialoguing so far, actually. There wasn't any discomfort; just honest talking and trying to come understand each other, and patience and humor whenever someone had trouble putting into words what they believed. We stayed until about 11:45 pm—for about 4 hours! Above are Nathan and I with Vanessa (middle) and Sarah (far left). They were so kind and I loved hearing their experiences and getting to know them better. They are truly remarkable ladies!

The Biola students come out every year, so we're looking forward to hopefully meeting up with them again!

The Sunday school lesson that went awry

Whether you go to church or not, I think you'll enjoy this story, especially if you've ever tried to explain a piece of literature to adolescents.

Two summers ago, my responsibility on Sundays was to teach a class of about a dozen twelve-year-old boys. On this particular Sunday, the lesson in the manual was on honoring womanhood and treating women with respect. I decided to start with a little symbolism from the Bible, just to get their little craniums chugging. Then I wanted to brainstorm some ways they can show respect for the ladies in their lives.

I had an adult co-teacher (I'll call him Steve), the father of one of the boys in the room. He's a great guy, and I usually appreciated the thoughts he would interject periodically into the discussion. But on this day, for some reason, our brains just weren't clicking in unison.

Adam's prime rib

Since we were talking about honoring women, I thought it would be fun to explain the symbolism of Adam's rib. I had the boys pull out their Bibles and read that passage about the creation of Eve.

²¹The Lord God ... took one of [Adam's] ribs. ... ²²And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
    ²³And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh.
    ²⁴Therefore shall a man ... cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. (Genesis 2:21–24)

Now, whether or not you believe the Eden story literally, it undoubtedly has several allegorical lessons to offer. I wanted these boys to understand the lesson this story teaches about how men should regard women—not as superiors or inferiors, but as equals. Hence the rib—since it is from Adam's side, not above or below him. Getting twelve-year-olds to think figuratively, though, was harder than I thought, especially when they get derailed by the co-teacher. :-)

I said, "So guys, why do you think it says Eve was created from Adam's rib?"

They started thinking about it, and I even think some were about to suggest some symbolic meanings. Then Steve spoke up, "You know, boys, this is why, to this day, men have one fewer ribs than women."

When someone brings folklore like that into a lesson, usually you correct it. But I didn't—partly because on the spot I couldn't immediately think of how to phrase my correction without possibly embarrassing a fellow adult leader. But also, this particular folklore isn't a big deal, and I didn't want to take away time from the point of the lesson. So I just went on: "What could this story be teaching us? Why doesn't it say, 'Eve was created from Adam's foot'?" I wanted to get them focused back on the symbolism.

But the damage was already done—they were completely thinking literally now. I can imagine their thought process: Well, since making her from Adam's rib means he was missing a rib for the rest of his life, I guess making her from Adam's foot means ... One boy hesitantly said, "Because then he would only have one foot?"

Nuts. I tried to get them out of the Rut of Literalness. "Well, no. It's because your foot is from the bottom of your body. That would imply that Adam was above Eve—that he was better than her or more important than her. See how it's symbolic?" Try again. "So why doesn't it say, 'Eve was created from Adam's hair'?"

Another boy offered helpfully, "Because then he would be bald?"

I mentally slapped my forehead. I was no good at teaching this! "Well, no. It's because your hair is from the top of your body. That would imply that Adam was beneath Eve—that he was worse than her or less important than her. You see?"

I think a few boys were able to leave the concrete long enough to understand this way of interpreting the story, but several were still completely in the dark. I gave up my clumsy attempts at explaining symbolism and suddenly appreciated how good my high school English teachers were at doing it.

What women want

I told the boys about a time when I was preparing a lesson a few years ago to give to a class full of single college guys. As part of my preparation, I called four girls (my sister, my cousin Stephanie, and two former girlfriends) and asked them what they looked for in a guy. They had lots of interesting things to say. One interesting fact is that each of them, independently of each other, said something like this: "I look for how he treats girls he's not interested in. Does he only open doors for the cute girls, or does he open them for any girl, regardless of whether he thinks she's attractive?"

"Hey, that's interesting," said Steve. "Are you boys paying attention?"

We discussed why that would be, and the boys understood that we should treat all women with respect, not just because we hope to get something out of it, like favors, social approval, or a date.

Then we started making a list on the chalkboard of "How We Can Show Respect for Women." The boys chimed in with several ideas, and I was really pleased with what they were sharing. One boy said, "We can pick up her books for her if she drops them in the hall at school."

"Right!" I said. And then to reinforce the earlier principle, I asked, "Now, should we only pick up the books for the pretty girls?"

"No!" several said.

"That's right!" said Steve, my adult co-teacher.

"And why should we pick up the books for just any girl who happens to drop them?" I almost closed my eyes, puffed out my chest, and smiled expectantly, waiting for verbal proof that my lesson had been thoroughly understood by these, the noble men of our future.

Before the boys could answer, Steve wagged his fingers at the boys and explained, "Because the pretty girls might be watching."

I wanted to slap my forehead again. I felt like a deflated balloon. I opened my mouth a few times, trying to be diplomatic. Finally I said almost apologetically, "Well, actually, I was going to say, it's because she's a woman, and that's reason enough to treat her with respect."

Steve furrowed his brow thoughtfully and cocked his head. Then he leaned back and said in his slow, deep voice, "Hey guys, that is a way better answer than mine."

I couldn't help but laugh helplessly at what did and didn't come across during my lesson. I suppose as long as they learned something, then that's progress, right? :-)